2026-04-30-grace-bliss-dustin

Grace + Bliss + Dustin

Grace’s Background & CHIPS Act Experience

• Former CHIPS Act program analyst, covered Micron deal specifically

• Worked on $1B+ semiconductor investments with focus on national security, economic viability, environment, workforce requirements

• Moving to JMI Equity (San Diego) for growth investing in tech/AI

• Goal: eventually run government investment program or Stanford Endowment

Key Semiconductor Industry Pain Points

• Talent shortage: Biggest issue is technical talent for 2nm chips and recruiting from Taiwan/Asia to US fabs

  • CHIPS Act designed to bootstrap this 20-30 year talent development cycle

• Regulatory burden: Extensive compliance requirements (NEPA environmental, diversity, childcare, workforce training) slow development

• Technology choke points: EUV lithography (major CapEx driver), HBM memory (critical and in short supply), polysilicon/critical minerals

• Supply chain visibility: Companies struggle to understand tier 3-4 supplier risks and exposure

Digital Twin Concept Validation

• Grace confirmed companies do submit supply chain risk heat maps as part of CHIPS applications

• Department of Commerce has aggregated supply chain data from all applicants but hasn’t processed it due to competing priorities

• No legal barriers to aggregating this data - just resource constraints

• Gina Raimondo’s post-CHIPS project focused specifically on semiconductor supply chain investment fund

Next Steps

• Dustin & Bliss: Read NOFO (Notice of Funding Opportunity) document - “bible” for CHIPS Act requirements, especially criteria 6 on supply chain

• Dustin & Bliss: Talk to Keith Hennessy (Stanford policy professor) for geopolitical foundations

• Dustin & Bliss: Take energy finance class with Josh Rauh for oil contract/supply chain models

• Dustin & Bliss: Read Factory Settings substack by Mike Schmidt & Todd Fisher (former CHIPS leadership)

• Grace: Will connect them with Todd Fisher (former CHIPS CIO, now advising Raimondo) once concept develops further

• Grace: Follow Gina Raimondo’s current supply chain initiative work

Transcript

Them: It seems like you have a lot of like a lunchtime, a lot of drive. What gave you that impression? I mean, I feel like just me aggressively walking up to you in little chimney bees. Yeah. And like setting up a meeting. When I don’t text you back, text me back again. Like bringing in someone else. Like I’m getting a lot of drive. I’m sorry if I’m. No, I like it a little unmannered. I like the persistence and the passion. Are you like this about everything? Yes, he is, unfortunately about literally everything. My quick background, which will kind of explain some of this. I grew up in New York City, went to the University of Michigan, worked in real estate, private equity. And then when Russia commenced its full scale invasion of Ukraine was like, I want to do something to get on the right side of history. Ended up leaving my private equity job building a supply chain of military and medical supplies to the front lines of Ukraine and then building a hospital in Ukraine. So it’s just kind of been like beaten into me that like you have to just like make things happen if they’re gonna happen in life. So yes, I’m kind of aggressive in that respect. You want to give a little background on yourself. So many questions. Deflect. Again, not as interesting as Dustin. I was at Palantir for a few years before this engineer pm working mostly on government defense related things. While he was in Ukraine, I was helping settle the Ukrainian military. So that’s how our paths came together. And yeah, Harvard undergraduate Cameron Cavo. I know the name but never, never worked with him. And then yeah, Harvard undergrad, studied classics and computer science. Oh, wow. Gabe. Like the Kirkland. Oh, I was in Elliott. Oh, cool. Yeah, yeah. You guys always have a better formal though. Are you going to your five year? I am, yeah. I’m really excited. It’s like end of the month. How was it? It was a blast. Yeah. So much fun and like I kind of miss Boston. I realized when you were there, like, wow, this is also historical. Where did you grow up? I grew up in la. Where in la? Santa Monica. Cool. Where’d you go to high school? Harvard. Wesley. Cool. You were Harvard Westlake when you grad 2016. I know a bunch of. My sister is Class of 2018. College. College. What’s her name? Chelsea Pan. And where she go? Parker at Michigan. Okay. I think so. It’s like all Harvard Westlake people. Yeah, a lot of Harvard Westlake people. I’m trying to think about younger people. Like I think Rachel Persky. Yep, yep, yep, yep. You know, like Jacob Burns and like Ty Gilhooly. So Ty is one of my really good friends. His dad actually ended up becoming the chairman of the board of the organization that I started. Oh, wow. So like very close with them. And then there’s younger ones like Jared Eisner. Dylan Eisner. Jared is my class. Yeah. So my brother. Brady Engel. Exactly. My brother is 20, 21 in Michigan, so he’s like. Yeah. And then I lived in LA for a while, so that’s. Do you like la? I love la. I don’t want to move back to la, but I love la. What about you? I kind of feel some familial obligation to move back to la, but I love New York. I lived in New York for like three, four years. Where? In New York? For a year. I moved around a lot. I had like four different apartments when I was there. Like Morningside Heights, Hell’s Kitchen. Never den. Upper east side. Were you in school? Like Columbia? Yeah, I did a one year master’s. It was like a public policy program. Cool. Okay. We’re gonna be friends. I think we’re all interested in like. Yeah, very similar things. So you were in Hell’s Kitchen, Lower east side. And what was the last one? And then Upper east side. Upper east side, Sorry. And then Lic. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. You got around. So I grew up in the Village and then I lived in like Greenpoint before school. Okay. Yeah. But my family used to split time between New York and la and then our house burned down. So now we don’t split time between New York and la. I’m so sorry. Is it all like cleaned up by this point? Yeah, so I think we’re gonna rebuild. Rebuilding, but like slowly, you know, like not rushing into it. But yeah. What, like, what industry do your parents work in? My dad is a lawyer and my mom is a family and couples therapist. Kind of an interesting congratulation, right? They did not. No, they didn’t go to Michigan. They met at like a friend’s ski share where like they both got invited and like an actual proper meet cute story, you know, like not on a dating app. Yeah. What about you? My parents immigrated from Shanghai in their late 20s and they brought over their practice of. They were doctors in China and then now they do alternative medicines like acupuncture or massage for like Hollywood. Cool. How often do you go back to China? Growing up, I went back every summer to Shanghai. To Shanghai? Yeah. And my grandparents lived with us. It’s like pretty common in Chinese culture to like do different generations of household. So my parents would like my grandparents would switch off every year and then I kind of stopped going back when I was in college. But then starting after I finished working for the government I want to start going back every right now cuz my grandparents are like in their 90s. Wow. Yeah. But it definitely weird working for the US government. Like being Chinese American for a government program basically that’s like aggression over China. Yeah, I have some like. I don’t know. I’m still processing that. It’s super. I’d love to talk to you more about that. I. I started studying Chinese in seventh grade. Like I did like a five week home stay in China. Oh wow. And what city you got a Chinese accent. I still speak decently. Well if Spencer and I want to talk and not have people listen speaking Chinese. But yeah, I think a big part of like my own passion in life is like both of us to give a little bit of a TL doctor on what we’ve been doing is like we met here and first quarter we were just like let’s just like start whiteboarding the world’s problems like geopolitical geostrategy. Like where like where directionally are things going? What do we believe is true? What did you like each right in your GSB application? What your aspiration was aspiration or what matters most to us and why either. I was doing some different things back then. Before Palantir I used to teach English to or computer science and English to refugee. So I wrote a lot about education and like democratizing knowledge. Don’t think I’m really going to be going down more of an education nonprofit career path now but do have a lot of interests in like creating impact abroad and this sort of wider stakeholder model of things. I wrote the the most important thing to me is my passport because it’s my vehicle to going out and exploring the world and understanding my place in it and understanding myself further. And I wrote that my goal through business school is to create a more integrated. I built a hospital in Ukraine. It’s a proof of concept for a reconstruction scheme for the country. And I wrote how this was never true. But what I wrote is like I wanted to come here to learn about to develop a more integrative reconstruction solution that includes like energy and other sorts of infrastructure besides just physical infrastructure. But a big reason why I came to business school is like very proud of the work that I did there but ready to move on to the next thing. You should talk to Anshul in our class. He was Gonna go work it might be more useful to him than you. I’m down to be helpful. So he would. He worked at DaVita over the summer, the healthcare. What’s his name? A N S H U L. Yeah, he’s like this bald Jack Indian. He was, he was. He got a return offer from Davida but then he decided like not to take it and instead to go back to his family’s like home state in India and like run a hospital there. Wow, super cool. I feel like you would have a lot of. For sure. That’s super cool. Okay, but now you’re moving on. Moving on. Basically. How do we scope this? How do we scope this bliss? Do we go through the whole story or do we just like. You want to take it? Yeah, totally. I mean I think we have made the classic mistake in these sort of entrepreneurship classes, RDI type things of coming up with a solution before a problem. And we have this whole idea which we could draw you out on for 10 minutes around why we think a digital twin of the entire semiconductor supply chain can be used to monetize things like parametric insurance, dynamic marketplaces and the supply chain. But we’re really trying to just go back to the drawing board, talk to people with experience in semiconductors policy, procurement compliance, all the sort of picks and shovels that aren’t related to actually making semiconductors themselves and understand pain points and just gain knowledge from these conversations. So we just love to hear about your experience. Experience like with chips act and like some of the other semis adjacent work you’ve been doing and just like have a few questions from that. How did you guys land on semis amongst like all the big problems? Yeah, so I think that was a super good framing. The only thing I would say is like I don’t think we made a mistake. I think we’re just like kind of like in the process. But basically we started out by just like whiteboarding the world’s problems and we arrived at like okay, we think we’re moving towards a multipolar world, not a bipolar world. We think that in that multipolar world what’s going to drive geo economic position, geo strategic position is economic outcome. What’s going to drive economic outcome is technological outcome. We as two people that want to be change agents in the world don’t want to go into government, are not going to push on the geopolitical level, the economic level. Like no, we think the most effective way for us to really make an impact is try to push on the technology technological level in Such a way that ladders up to geostrategic interest. Because we both care a lot about, like, America and like this country being like, I believe in the values of this country and like, I want this country to be well positioned in the next generation. And so it’s like, on the one hand, like, we want to put America on the front foot, we want to press on the technological level. So then we went through. Let’s look at these different critical industries. Look at oil quantum computing, sorry, quantum computing, semiconductors, nuclear reactors. Let’s look at those value chains. Let’s compare them to oil, because the oil value chain is very well developed. And let’s see what doesn’t really exist in these other value chains that does exist in oil that we can reasonably extrapolate might or should or will exist. And what we found is there’s a whole class of, of financialization and risk transfer mechanisms that exist for oil that doesn’t exist for semiconductors. We also took a class called Adam’s Bits in the National Interest all about semiconductors last quarter. Not at the business school, not at the business school electrical engineering class, but a really cool class. And especially with your background, you would have found it fascinating. It was all about, like, started with like a technical deep dive of like, what is a semiconductor? And then laddered all the way up to like, what are the legal and ethical. What are the implications of semiconductors in our world? And the first class was taught by Steve Blank, who came up and he’s like, semiconductors, the oil of the 21st century. Like, this is the strategic commodity that’s going to drive and determine geop, geostrategic positioning going forward. And so we’re both like, that’s fucking cool. We’ve got this kind of like, interest in like, okay, financialization, risk transfer, using data to create better. We got to start somewhere. Like, let’s just pick up. And so we’ve done a lot of work on like that oil analogy, done a lot of work on, like, what are these things that could kind of exist? We’ve done a lot of work on, like, how could we create. I mean, Bliss is a data engineer. So like, what kind of data models could we create and how can we use data to actually solve some of these problems? Now it’s like, okay, if it is semis, maybe yes, maybe no. But like, we need to actually understand what are the pain points that people are experiencing, like, where is their opportunity? What is a real problem that people are feeling? What is a real problem that you’re never Gonna be able to solve what is not a real problem that we, you know, the AI models predict is a real problem. But does that make sense? Are you most focused on, like, I understand which aspect of semisor you think you want to create a solution around. It sounds like it’s like supply chain related or it also sounds like it’s sort of like risk sharing. I love the way you’re breaking down what we’re sharing because you’re, you’re like catching every single ambiguity and decision point. I think to bliss his credit, the way he planned on setting this up was like not giving you a ton of context so we could hear what you experienced as problems and not kind of filter your perspective too much. Yeah, I’m happy to either push down that path or to just like tell you what we’re working on and have you shape it. Before I forget. Yeah, I have a bunch of like hats. I feel like you should resources you should look at. Perfect. Amazing. Starting from like easiest access to maybe harder slash, more painful access. Yeah, just on campus. It sounds like you’re already doing like the background work a lot, but you should definitely talk to Keith Hennessey if you’re not in his class already. He teaches like all the policy classes and just has a really good grasp on geopolitics. And I had to drop the China one, unfortunately. Yeah, but you should do office hours with him and just like talk to him about your ideas because he’ll push you on like the foundations of your concepts. I think really well. Cool. Two on the oil analogy. In the winter quarter, I took like the energy finance class. And I feel like if you’re trying to find like it was a lot about like contracts, like contract design in oil and like the supply chain infrastructure. So I feel like if you’re trying to like map on models from energy, would recommend that. Third, my bosses from the CHIPS program, Mike Schmidt, he was the director of the CHIPS program, and Todd Fisher, who is the chief investment officer of the program. Since they left, they have been writing a blog, like a substack blog called Factory Settings. And they like, they basically share their perspectives on the pain points from the CHIPS Act. So I think you should read that substack. Fourth. This is like really painful to read, but I think if you really want to like educate yourself on the requirements of the supply chain for semiconductors, you should read the NOFO N O F O which stands for Notice of Funding Opportunity for the CHIPS act. Because basically that was like our bible that we assessed applicants against. So those are like the strings attached with investment from chips, it was like everything a company needed to prove out in order to get lighting from us. And for us, it ranged across six different evaluation criteria. The first one was national security. The second one was economic viability, like financial metrics, environment, workforce, and like general, like broader impacts like child care or so stuff like that. So I feel like if you’re trying to think about this is more US centric, but if you’re trying to think about like buckets for what semiconductor companies need to solve for in order to be successful here, like, that provides a really good framework and it goes into major depth into like the specific metrics that they care about. So I think that would be like, really rich for you just to like, understand like across what dimensions you could be evaluated against. I love how your brain works. Seriously. Like, I love. It’s really cool to watch you, like, dissect everything we just shared and then like construct exactly what we need to do. And then I think maybe not yet, but if you guys, like, as you guys develop your concept further, like, I would love to put you in touch with Todd Fisher, who is the chief investment officer at the CHIPS program. He’s still really involved in government. After he finished his role, he worked on a semiconductor supply chain initiative with Secretary Junior Raimondo and they’re still developing that. He decided not. He basically was like the advisor on it, but decided not to take on the role full time. Now he’s like doing something government. Like, he’s working like New Jersey local politics because I think Secretary General Armando is going to run for president and he wants a role, like, if she, like, goes far enough. But yeah, he is like the guy to talk to about this stuff. And his prior role was like in the C suite of kkr. So he has, he’s coming from like, reinvesting. Awesome. Awesome. Sick. Love that. But I, I feel like it’s hard for me to know like, what perspective to offer if I’m not sure, like, which, like part of the supply chain industry. What’s the biggest problem that you think exists in the, in the, in the semiconductor supply chain? Like, what if before I tell you, I will tell you everything. There’s not any. I’m not holding back. But like, what is the biggest problem? What is the biggest thing that you think needs to and will be solved? That’s not being addressed right now? I would say the biggest thing is the technical talent to develop 2 nanometer chips and like training up the workforce and recruiting the talent from Asia to like, Actually build the fabs in the us specifically from Taiwan. So you mentioned recruiting the talent from Asia. Why do you think it’s structurally impossible to create that talent in the us? Well, I mean, that was. This is the whole impetus behind the CHIPS Act. Yeah. Is like the whole. It just makes financial and regulatory sense to build vats in Taiwan or Singapore or Malaysia as opposed to the US and so all the talent is just going to be at the factories there. So then the whole point of the CHIPS ACT is we need to actually create like the fabs here in order to import the talent here. Got it. So it’s almost like a cold start problem from like a talent development standpoint. Yeah. So, I mean, the chip’s not just a start, but like, so the whole idea is like, it’ll take 20 to 30 years, a whole generation, to create this new talent. You can like, bootstrap that by like, creating regulatory structures to like, take the talent and bring it here more quickly than it would take to train another generation. Yeah, okay, got it. The second thing is, like, I. I think one of the biggest drawbacks of the chip tax is that, like, to get funding, there’s just so much regulation that they need to follow. Like, a lot of it is around environmental. There’s this act called NEPA that, like, there’s just these crazy environmental things that they need to prove out in order to get funding and actually like, develop the plan here. And then there’s also requirements around, like, like diversity and child care and like workforce training. So there’s just a lot that a company needs to manage, like work in the US So like, something to like, manage all that? And are all. Is all of that encoded in this, like, NOFO document you mentioned earlier? Or was a lot of that sort of just like unwritten preferences that were enforced by one administration or the other? Okay, so it’s all like written there. Yeah. Okay. But I do think some of it is probably made more lax than your. Lennox. Yeah, yeah. Another thing, tech, like, technology wise, a big constraint is EUV photography. It’s kind of like the biggest technical barrier, just like such a big driver of CapEx. And then also technology wise, like, I. The deal that I worked on was Micron. And the big journey of my deal was like, at the beginning of the deal, like, nobody thought that we should fund Micron because memory is a commodity. But then over the course of, like, our due diligence, like, we had to prove out that we thought HBM high bandwidth memory would become like a really important part of the Future of semiconductors. And now Microsoft stock is like ripping because every like HBM is like critical and in short supply. So I think focusing on like the choke points of like the most, the most critical, the most expensive and the most like sought after parts of the technology which would be these days HBM and EUV repair and did you meet up with Church? And then there’s all this stuff I don’t really understand about like supply chain but like another company I covered is called Hemlock and they do polysilicon and that is like there’s, that’s not as much in, in like short supply, but there are other components like critical minerals that are important inputs into the semiconductor supply chain that I feel like is like another area to focus on. But I don’t have as much experience around that. What are you doing after school? Do you know? I’m going to gross equity like fortunately or unfortunately more on like the software AI side than the hardware side, which people always tell me is a shame because I’m just like wasting all this knowledge I have. But I just feel like I don’t come from like an engineering background and stuff and I feel like this stuff is changing so quickly that like I don’t have like the horsepower or like interest to like stay up to date on the, on like the state of the industry at all times. Not something related to semis, huh? But I mean it’s, it’s all related to semis. Yeah. Which is why semis are so interesting. But I’m moving to San Diego. It’s a company called jmi. They do like only tech industry. Cool. Super cool. That was a really helpful rundown. What we’ve been thinking a lot about is basically what we want to do is build the digital twin of the semiconductor supply chain, which is nice and easy. What is, can you like explain how you guys conceptualize digital twin? Yeah. So fundamentally macro hypothesis. I think going forward this narrative of like domestication supply chain is not true. Like we’re not gonna be able to do that. It’s too expensive, it’s just too difficult. And so there’s going to need to be a new form of globalization in the future that has more flexibility, there’s going to be more redundancy built. You’re going to need to be able to flex your supply chain. Because whether it’s some geopolitical event, some sort of war, some sort of protectionist policy, some sort of whatever, I think unfortunately that’s on the rise. And so there need to be tools that exist to facilitate the Kind of globalization that companies need to execute in the future. If you take the semiconductor supply chain, which we don’t know a lot about, this is all hypothesis. Are people able to actually understand all the way through to like tier three, tier four, what is the exposure on their supply chain? Right. Like you think about the US semiconductors going into critical defense or other critical industries, the US national security, like do we actually understand kind of like the rare earths thing that we didn’t realize until trying to flip the switch, like how dependent we are and how compromised our supply chain is. And so the idea is like can you map out this supply chain in a more cohesive way that allows people to understand, first of all, where are the choke points? Second of all, like if you can identify the choke points, can you predict upcoming shocks? Some sort of like alert warning. If you can alert, can you propose remediation? Right? If you can propose remediation, can you create a marketplace or people can actually transact and then once you have all that data, can you actually create some of this financialization layer by underwriting bespoke insurance policies or creating some sort of price index or benchmark that people can then trade and create hedging products based off of? So like that’s the big vision, right? In order to do that you need a superior data asset. Our hypothesis for how you break the cold start problem for getting data and creating that data flywheel is maybe you can automate compliance functions, which is why what you talked about with the requirements around the CHIPS Act, I know some of those are like practical, not like literal, just compliance. But if we can automate compliance workflows for companies, is that a way for us to begin to build that data asset? And so that’s where we stand, right? Like we’ve got a nice pretty vision and now it’s just like, okay, like who actually values that? Like who would benefit from that? Who’s the kind of person that would pay for something? Does that all make sense? Yeah, you should look at criteria six in the nofo because that’s, that’s where they covered the supply chain redundancy and risk stuff. Also when I was evaluating applications in order to satisfy like that, like what are the requirements was supply chain diversification and they had to submit understanding of like where the risk falls in their supply chain. So each of the major companies like did submit as part of their proposal, kind of like a heat map of where they thought the risks in their supply chain lied. So that makes me think that they do have, I don’t know if they do it manually, if it’s just like the guy who works there or if they have software. Like it makes me think that there is a status quo system that they’re using. And that’s exactly. Go ahead. So I’m curious because you mentioned a system they’re using to prepare the application you as the evaluator of like whether those companies were compliant or not, what parts of that job were the hardest? What were the fuzziest, most subjective things when you had to evaluate these applications versus the things that were just clear cut, like kind of box checking. Okay. We sort of outsourced this to our. There was like a supply chain team. So there was like a couple guys in the office who like knew the supply chain really well and they had their like databases. So honestly we kind of just like got the report from them. Okay. I have to say that this, the, the output of this assessment was never like a driving factor of our funding. It was more like, I think to gather data from the US Government side. So honestly like the Department of Commerce like has all that data. I don’t know how you’ll get access to all the CHIPS applications though. But like it is true that like in all those applications they literally, literally say like, this is my supply chain and this is where the risks are across applications. But it’s not aggregated. Why wasn’t it aggregated? I assume there’s plenty of people in the government that would want it. I mean there was just so much other work to do that like the ROI wasn’t high enough. But there was no like screaming data privacy law saying like, you can’t aggregate this data. No. Okay, got it, got it. How do we get that data set? Go put an application at the, for the implementation team of the CHIPS program. Could you build a solution for them for commerce or they don’t care, you’re saying? I mean, honestly, I don’t think have the latest, but like, I think it would be really helpful to talk to like, I think you’re onto something because literally the secret, the prior secretary, Junior Mondo’s next project was focused on like semiconductor supply chain. So she’s like currently working on that whether whether we like it or not. I guess. Like, I think her end goal was to basically like create an investment fund like I’ve done, identify the critical choke points in the supply chain and then start funding companies. So what is, what is, what is Lutnik doing there right now? Like, how is Lutnick and Trump approaching CHIPS Act? What are the major Differences in, like, priorities now versus back then. They’re focused on, like, having a, like a heavy hand on the big guys and then like, stripping away the. In some requirements for everyone else and then also their focus. Right. Like, I feel like the program, by the time I left has sort had sort of, like, played out. So now he’s focused on, like, critical minerals and, like, other parts of. Got it. Yeah. But obviously, like, taking a stake in intel. Interesting. And so do. Do. Do you think that, like, a similar program could be, like, copy and pasted into other critical industries in the US or do you think so much of the way the regulation. I mean, I think it’ll have to be, like, a big enough problem to get bipartisan support. But I wrote in my application that eventually my goals will need a Department of Commerce program, so I hope so. Yeah. Wait, what was your. I don’t want to distract you much. What’s the most important thing to you and why? And then, I mean, what you said is kind of sounds like a version of what I said. I said, like, exploring the unknown. And, like, I feel like something interesting always comes out of, like, taking calculated risks. Sick. Love that. Okay, so your vision is to run a commerce program either? Like, I want to run a program that, like, takes capital and, like, does something really ambitious with it. So do you agree with the hypothesis that we are going to see an increase in industrial policy in the United States? I think so. On both sides of the aisle? I think so. What needs Mostly just because, like, China. It depends. It’s like, you have to react to what China’s doing. What needs to exist in order to facilitate effective industrial policy, not just from, like a. Like to put our business school hats on for a minute. Like, what are the picks and shovels that allow industrial policy to be successful? I think you need, like, an existential threat that enables bipartisan support. I think you need, like, a Secretary of commerce or whatever the department is that has private sector connections and can, like, galvanize a team that, like, the private sector respects. And then I think you need. I think you need to do better in the CHIPS program in terms of making it, like, a appropriately burdensome for compliance. As in, like, between overly regulated box checking compliance and then just like wild west. Like, it has to be, like, somewhere in the middle. Okay, is there any product when you kind of put yourself. I know you have to run in a minute also. You can just tell me to shut up. Go ahead. I do need to go and suck. But is there any sort of, like, product service Software, whatever that you grace working on the CHIPS act would have just like paid so much money to automate for you if you were like, if this existed, it would have made our job so much easier and actually implementing and making this policy successful. I mean, what immediately comes to mind is honestly on the legal drafting side, not to say that there isn’t existing software that would have done the job, but we wasted so much time, like going back and forth on these contracts with the government lawyers and each company when a lot of it, like every. Every team, every deal team just kind of did it differently and it kind of like relied on like, the knowledge of individual people. Also, like, the coordination across the different sub teams of the CHIPS ACT was like, kind of painful. Like, this is a little bit like, I don’t know how helpful this is because the CH CHIPS act program itself was pretty, like, unique. But we were the investments team. There’s a national security team, there’s an environmental team, there’s a workforce team. And like, we had this merit review group running like a Google Doc that like everyone got input in. And then like, there was sort of like politics around. Like, the investments team thought that they, like, owned the process and like, prioritizing. I don’t know, those different interests. Yeah, that’s kind of what comes to mind. But honestly, the investment process itself was like, pretty. Because of who loved the program. It was like pretty similar to the classic PE process. Like, we made investment decks. We had like an investment committee. Sick. Yeah, I should go. This is really helpful, but this is super cool. I’m really excited to see what you guys come up with. And I’m having your time too. Yeah, would love to take up on that. When we advance our thinking a little bit, we’re going to reach out to Keith Hennessy. We’re going to figure out the energy finance professor. This is Josh Ra. Josh Row. He also writes a sex back. Okay. Josh Ra sounds like a great guy to talk to. Au h. He’s a little neurotic. Well, we can handle neurotic New York Jew. I can. Mike Schmidt and Todd Fisher. We’re going to advance our thinking a little bit, but then we’d love to talk to them. We’ll read their substack for sure. And we’ll read the nofo. Yeah. And if you think of anything else, people, crazy ideas that pop into your mind, anything at all, you should follow Gina Romando and see what she’s doing on the supply chain stuff. I think a lot of it is private, but I think honestly the Most valuable information. Did you work with Sarah Strober at all? I didn’t work with her, but I know we both worked in our apartments and now we’re roommates. Oh really? Amazing. She was one of my India GST leads. I remember like she’s always talking about her work with. Yeah, yeah. I feel so like lucky to have worked in this program. Like I feel like it sort of set the bar for like, well, this is what fulfilling work is like, you know, I’m definitely not going to get that in my next job, but I swear. Community. But do you see yourself staying and investing long term? I just feel like, I mean I wanted to like the reason I applied to business school is cuz everyone I worked with at the CHIPS program, I worked in consulting before I started working this job because I was a consultant for two years and they pushed me over. But then I was exposed to like all these people from Wall street and I was like, whoa, I love the way you think and like present yourself. So then I got interested in investing and then at the gsb I just exploring like what do you see? What’s growth, what’s buyout? Like was being an LP and I landed at growth. So like now I’m just like following through. I think I’ll like it. But eventually like I either want to work in the government, in an investment program or like run the Stanford Endowment. That’s super cool. I love that. Okay, I really gotta go. Go get out of here before we ask more questions. Yeah, and also like let’s hang out sometime. Like, you’re very cool. I feel like 100 mutual friends and I think a lot of mutual interest too. Nice meeting. Good luck with everything. Thank you very much. We will.